Heavy weapon load-outs

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Heavy weapon load-outs

Post by Dogmar on Thu Jun 27, 2013 8:19 am

Hey,

being new to CWE and having just read through the codex a couple of times I'm wondering which weapons to magnetize on my weapon platforms, war walkers and wraithlord. Since I have a limited amount of weapons at hand and because I don't want to magnetize tons of options I'm never going to use I'd like to ask you what a good load out would be.

My thoughts:
Wraithlord: Either 2 Bright Lances since they don't have to be twin linked any more and because you don't find many of those elsewhere in the army or double starcannon/scatter laser and starcannon to help deal with heavy infantry. I'm a bit torn here since AP2 on the cannon is cool and all, but I can get plenty S6 shooting elsewhere, especially the non-ap2 kind. The EML just seems overcosted for what it does.

War Walkers: 2 Bright lances each for a squad of mini-ravagers come to mind here - shame I don't have that many lance bits, but anyway Very Happy. Or Scatter Laser Shuriken Cannon for ultimate S6 dakka. Should be good at popping light transports, infantry and maybe hit rear armor on flyers. Especially cool with the battle focus rule. Again EML seems overcosted and I'm not sure on the starcannon since it doesn't have the volume of shots. Only concern with SL/Shuriken Cannon is the difference in range the 2 weapons have.

Guardian weapon platforms: Backfield objective sitters might like lances or a scatter lasers for range, but since the platform is relentless shuriken cannon or starcannon would complement their AI role nicely, probably the shuriken cannon since it's the same weapon type as the shuriken catapults and thus aimed at the same kind of target.

Am I missing anything here? What has proven useful to you? What hasn't?

Enlighten me! Very Happy

Cheers
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Re: Heavy weapon load-outs

Post by thejamppa on Thu Jun 27, 2013 10:25 pm

So far guardian defenders with their heavy weapon platform can get also bright lances with BS4. . All units have BS4 now, so you can take Falcons with lances too etc so Wraithlords do not need to be anymore de facto bright lance platform. I feel that Lance + Starcannons might be very good combo for Wraithlords too. But I use them mainly kill terminators and hunt vehicles Very Happy

However since guardian role is mostly back objectives scatterlaser is still very viable for them to dish out long range fire support. Missile is great but expensive. If you got points then yes but currently I see starcannon and scatterlaser strongest choices for them. Lance is not bad either.

I am testing next scatter laser bright lance combo on my Wraithlords next game.

I plan to test my next game two war walker with scatters + EML with flakks and one with scatter + lance. Expensive but I can deal pretty much anything my opponent can throw at me. I feel Scatters are still top weapons choice. Of course you could go 4th edition Dakka Walkers: 2x scatter lasers and dishout 24 s6 shots when you come out, now with BS 4 Very Happy. Marines were crying then now they will get tantrum due Battlefocus and increased BS Very Happy
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Re: Heavy weapon load-outs

Post by Dogmar on Fri Jun 28, 2013 2:41 am

Before taking Falcons I'd rather have a fireprism, much more versatile in what it does.

So except for not being "forced" into lances with my Wraithlord, double lance or Lance Starcannon are both vaild combinations, I was right on than one after all Very Happy

For the guardians range is key if they are backfield objective campers. Probably going Scatter Laser or Lance here since the range of these is highest, Starcannon, too for anti heavy infantry.

What do you think about a more offensive use of guardians though? Sure they die like guardsmen but I'm thinking that for a unit that will run forward with a conceal warlock a shuriken cannon could be of use too. Remeber the platform is relentless and can thus move freely along with the guardians to do its thing. Might be ok for a infantry heavy list, but obviously I haven't tested this yet.

Have fun testing that War Walker setup, I don't think it's very viable, I'd go either full AT with lances and just guide them for twin-link or as you said cause some infantry carnage with "dakka" guns and battle focus. Scatter+EML+flakk is horribly expensive on an AV10 open topped platform, flakk missiles is only S7 and you're not guaranteed a scatterlaser hit for twinlink, besides the S6 laser might not add a lot to the units damage potential. I'm sure I could math hammer this out, but I'm too lazy atm... for S7 anti-flyer you might want to look at a unit of warpspiders with farseer support for twinlink, since monofilament is S7 against vehicles.
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Re: Heavy weapon load-outs

Post by thejamppa on Fri Jun 28, 2013 4:00 am

Most offensive use? Get warlock council and try to get conceal / reveal, assign that warlock to guardians or if you get one that improves armor :DThen have them footslog, fleet and battle focus behind wave serpent arm them starcannon and use serpent and cover provider and shoot bezeesus with starcannon before getting into enemy range and then unleash everything.

I know EML+flakk + Scatter is terribly expensive but here's the thing: I don't count getting scatterlaser getting tl for it. I count I throw atleast 1 or 2 3+ with flakk missile and its more than enough taking out  stormtalons which infest my meta.

And Way I use my war walkers: I have them foot slog behind my serpent providing cover. While I press hard on other flank with serpent #2 which has fire prism providing cover fire. With battle  focus they can do it. I know outflanking is good with them, problem is that I cannot count getting them on cover safely if my tanks are jammed on that side which they come.  Its all about target saturation but I don't have flyer so I rather take 2 or 3 flakks with av10 walkkers than single flakk on Dark Reaper exarch and having rest reaper then snapshot their s5 weapons on flyer. No thank you.

Till I get Crimson hunter, I have to get flakks to back up my aegis Very Happy
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Re: Heavy weapon load-outs

Post by Dogmar on Fri Jun 28, 2013 9:02 am

Fair point about your walker setup, but here is why I think warpspiders with guide are downright better:

Warwalkers with your described setup will get:

12 Scatterlaser shots, out of with 1/6 will hit and 1/6 out of those hits will glance AV12

Then assuming you hit you will get 3 TL Flakk missiles out of which 2.66 hit after rerolls and then 1/3 out of those hits do damage against AV12 which totals 1.22 Hullpoints worth of damage against AV12 not factoring in the chance to explode. This setup will cost you above 200 points.

Then you look at warpspiders who have awesome mobility and are extremely killy against infantry and light vehicles. Ok, you need a farseer for guide, but you'll have one anyway.

Out of 10 Warpspiders you get 20 Shots out of which 1/6 will hit directly and then another 1/6 of the misses will hit totaling 6.1 hits. Those hits are all S7 meaning 1/3 chance to damage AV12 totaling slightly above 2 HP worth of damage, again not factoring in explodes... this increases drastically against AV10 rear armor since you then pen on 4+ with all your hits.

Given the flexibility of the warp spiders I think they're the better anti air unit on paper, their only drawback being a lonely infantry target in a mech army should you play that build.
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Re: Heavy weapon load-outs

Post by Evil Space Elves on Fri Jun 28, 2013 1:08 pm

I have to admit that I have moved away from thinking that Eldar are a S6 spam army like they were in the old codex. With the option for cheap BL's EVERYWHERE I have converted to the idea of using them all over the place.
My old Warwalkers with dual SL's=now have dual BL's
My Wave Serpents have always had tlBL's
Even my Vypers have swapped out their SL for a BL.
Because I have so many BL's in the army now I have been able to give my Wraithlord two Star Cannons. I figure that having a whole lot of heavy infantry killing ability on the WL is a win. It might be overkill having so many BL's around with Wraithguard having S10 guns now, but when you roll like I do...better bring a lot of them Razz
To be honest, I don't see myself bringing Guardian Defenders as backfield objective holders and can think of better ways to get a cheap heavy weapon. I prefer Storm Guardians with dual flamers for mop-up duty out of a Wave Serpent anyhow, though given the new rending-light rule for catapults I may have to reconsider.
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Re: Heavy weapon load-outs

Post by Dogmar on Fri Jun 28, 2013 9:12 pm

ESE, how effective have you found that tactic? Haveyou tested this? Because on paper it loos like DE do lance spam reasonably better than Eldar.

I see your argument about crappy rolling and thus bringing something more reliable i.e. S10 though.
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Re: Heavy weapon load-outs

Post by Evil Space Elves on Sat Jun 29, 2013 12:48 am

Dogmar wrote:ESE, how effective have you found that tactic? Haveyou tested this? Because on paper it loos like DE do lance spam reasonably better than Eldar.
Honestly, I had to cancel my test games this week due to jury duty Mad 
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Re: Heavy weapon load-outs

Post by Dogmar on Sat Jun 29, 2013 4:55 am

Sorry to hear that. I keep forgetting how funny the U.S. law system works Very Happy If you manage to get a game in, feel free to tell me (or us respectively) how it goes Smile
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Re: Heavy weapon load-outs

Post by thejamppa on Sat Jun 29, 2013 11:45 pm

ESE, Guardfian defenders are not that cheap heavy weapon platform. Their weapons cost more than vehicles, however you cannot use use other heavy weapon units aswell area denial units like spreading guardians they cover so nicely area thus you can prevent enemy drop podding flank or such, however that is discussion for guardian defenders Wink
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Re: Heavy weapon load-outs

Post by Evil Space Elves on Sun Jun 30, 2013 1:17 am

thejamppa wrote:ESE, Guardfian defenders are not that cheap heavy weapon platform. Their weapons cost more than vehicles, however you cannot use use other heavy weapon units aswell area denial units like spreading guardians they cover so nicely area thus you can prevent enemy drop podding flank or such, however that is discussion for guardian defenders Wink
Agreed. Being primarily a Dark Eldar player I am accustomed to mobile scoring units and can't wrap my head around area denial. I guess I've had open-topped transports for so long that I'm used to just charging/redeploying when it comes to flankers/drop pod units Razz  I'm just not sure that Eldar really have the numbers to do this effectively unless there is a TON of terrain on the table.
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Re: Heavy weapon load-outs

Post by thejamppa on Mon Jul 01, 2013 5:44 am

Buy aegis line and you got pretty nice camping area for your units and guarantee piece of terrain, albeit its terribly mon-keigh looking. thus lacking all eldritch finesse and grace.
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Re: Heavy weapon load-outs

Post by Dogmar on Mon Jul 01, 2013 8:21 am

Not on topic, but I've built myself a simple, decent looking aegis in with eldar looking features. I can put a tutorial article thing up soonish, don't have a lot of time at the moment though. Also it's nothing absolutely breath taking but with a good paint job should do the trick.
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